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praying4patience Profile
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I can't reason,
so I pick fights.


Registered: 03-2006
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the Science and Bible thread


"Mel" is a good egg who i'm sure was not trying to impress anyone.

Couple things much of the OT,like the NT,is based upon an oral tradition.
The Bible was never intended to be a book of science.
PPl at that time beleived the world was flat and the sky a dome.
Some ppl believe inspired means to take dictation.
Dvininely inspired revelation means exactly what it says.
Ppl wrote about revealed truths of God with the understanding of their world from their persepective.
The NT was not written until approx 77 AD.
Matthew,Mark,Luke and John share similarites and also differences. For instance each evangelist writes the geneology of Jesus from a diff theological perspective and the gospel of John skips the whole geneological line completely and tells us these truths:
Jesus is God incarnate
That He is the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity
That the Word of God IS Jesus Himself.
Anotherwords the word of God is not a something but a somebody and that somebody is Jesus.
I found this link about the inerrancy of scripture among other things;i'm posting the link but i'd skip around to the questions re scripture so we can stick to topic.

This Rock

Some of scripture is literal,some symbolic,some allegorical. I leave it to persons more knowledgable than myself to discern which is which. The bottom line is that it reveals truths and is inspired by God to reveal Himself to us.The NT is concealed in the OT and the OT is revealed in the NT. The Bible is all about Jesus from start to finish.
GB!~
p4p


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9/6/2006, 8:04 am Link to this post PM praying4patience Read Blog
 
Macaroo Profile
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Re: the Science and Bible thread



The Bible is all about Jesus from start to finish.

I'm sure the Jews appreciate your input. emoticon

Mac

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9/6/2006, 11:28 am Link to this post PM Macaroo
 
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Minerva
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Re: the Science and Bible thread


Mac emoticon Yeah, I know they would beg to differ. emoticon

Some of scripture is literal,some symbolic,some allegorical. I leave it to persons more knowledgable than myself to discern which is which.

p4p, are you saying you don't put your own thought into discerning the true meaning in the Book you live your life by? If so, then how do you know who to listen to?

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9/6/2006, 3:23 pm Link to this post PM Lesigner Girl Read Blog
 
praying4patience Profile
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I can't reason,
so I pick fights.


Registered: 03-2006
Posts: 113
Karma: -5 (+1/-6)
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Re: the Science and Bible thread



I'm sure the Jews appreciate your input.

i'm sure they know that i see Jesus as the fullfillment of OT prophecy. Not a surprise.




p4p, are you saying you don't put your own thought into discerning the true meaning in the Book you live your life by? If so, then how do you know who to listen to?

sure i put my own thought into it,but even scripture says we are not to lean on our own understanding.Here's the diff. Catholics submit to the teaching authority of the Church.We don't self interpret. We accept scripture as divinely revealed truths.The Church discerned the inspired books of scripture and its canon afterall.
What we don't accept is sola scriptura.

Scripture is infallible.It reveals nothing but truth.
Why would there not be an infallible intepretation then?
There has to be a final arbitrator and that final arbitrator has to have an infallible intepretation.
It has to be truth and truth cannot contradict.
First of all sacred scripture was written in Greek and Hebrew. You have to trust that a translation is as accurate as possible unless you're going to study Greek and Hebrew yourself.How many ppl are going to do that? Second, the Church did discern the inspired books of scripture and its canon. Not all books were deemed inspired.We accept those.
Finally we accept the teaching authority of the Church.Afterall the NT was not written until 77 AD.
Ppl didn't exactly have bibles.So there had to have been a teaching authority and we believe scripture,tradition,history and the Early Church Fathers bears this out.
It is my own judgement,intellect,faith and reason that i determined that there is sufficient evidence that this is true for me to accept it.
GB!~
p4p




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9/8/2006, 5:40 am Link to this post PM praying4patience Read Blog
 
Macaroo Profile
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Re: the Science and Bible thread



i'm sure they know that i see Jesus as the fullfillment of OT prophecy. Not a surprise.



I refer less to their potential "surprise" than I do to their equally valid assertion that the O.T. is no such thing. I'm also fairly sure that any number of rabbis could present a cogent argument to the contrary, and that in all likelihood, you would be unable to successfully rebut it.


Scripture is infallible.It reveals nothing but truth.
Why would there not be an infallible intepretation then?



If you're attempting a logical argument, you can't present a bald assertion as an axiom. Give us your reasoning as to WHY Scripture is infallible; aside from the claim that it's infallible because it's Scripture, I mean.


There has to be a final arbitrator and that final arbitrator has to have an infallible intepretation.

According to what I've read and discussed, Christian doctrine says that human thought is imperfect. Since scripture is filtered through such, how do you know it's "infallible intepretation?"


First of all sacred scripture was written in Greek and Hebrew.



Two different languages, two different cultures. That's not counting the subsequent translations from both, all of which are similarly filtered through what Christianity has acknowledged as imperfect perceptions.


You have to trust that a translation is as accurate as possible...



Why?


...unless you're going to study Greek and Hebrew yourself.How many ppl are going to do that?



So again, why should anybody trust that any translation is as accurate as possible, given the evidence of many (in some cases, mutually exclusive) translations and what you've claimed as the necessity to study Greek and Hebrew in order to realize an informed opinion? Is it just expedient, or what?


Ppl didn't exactly have bibles.



I assume you have at least one now. Therefore, you don't really have a good reason to accept arbitrary interpretations of same based on what people of a bygone era didn't have.


It is my own judgement,intellect,faith and reason that i determined that there is sufficient evidence that this is true for me to accept it.



Okies. However, you do need a bit more than that if you expect *other people* to accept it as truth. Since the Great Commission seems to mandate that you try, and since your own judgment, intellect and reason have already been dismissed by the deity you worship, you're left with nothing but personal faith.

Does it ever occur to you that that may be an inadequate tool for the job?

Mac
  

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It is impossible to travel faster than light, and certainly not desirable, as one's hat keeps blowing off. ~ Woody Allen

9/8/2006, 6:07 pm Link to this post PM Macaroo
 
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Re: the Science and Bible thread



praying4patience said:
The Bible is all about Jesus from start to finish.



Are you sure of that? The New Testament, perhaps, and parts of the Old that relate to the prophesies that Jesus would be born, but that leaves substantial parts that are not about Jesus.

Can you please give me your opinion on why God stopped speaking directly to humankind after the Old Testatment was written but before the beginning of the ministry of The Christ? Was there a brief ascendency of the Holy Ghost during this time? Why is there a need for intercession between God and humankind?

Hi LG!


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9/8/2006, 6:55 pm Link to this post PM PeriodicallyDemented Yahoo
 
Lesigner Girl Profile
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Minerva
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Re: the Science and Bible thread


Hi PD! emoticon

p4p, Mac and PD both raise valid questions, and I am very interested in reading your response.  While I have many other questions I would like to ask eventually, theirs should be sufficient for the time being, so as not to overwhelm you.

I thank you in advance for providing any evidence you can to substantiate your assertions.

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9/9/2006, 1:51 am Link to this post PM Lesigner Girl Read Blog
 
praying4patience Profile
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I can't reason,
so I pick fights.


Registered: 03-2006
Posts: 113
Karma: -5 (+1/-6)
ReplyQuote
Re: the Science and Bible thread



since your own judgment, intellect and reason have already been dismissed by the deity you worship,

HUH?????
since when?

GB!~
p4p

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10/6/2006, 4:39 am Link to this post PM praying4patience Read Blog
 
Lesigner Girl Profile
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Minerva
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Re: the Science and Bible thread


It was Mac who made that comment, but I would like to respond to this anyway.

In 1 Timothy, he's being told not to listen to knowledge acquired by mankind, but to blindly follow his church leaders and pass that same message on.

There are other messages in the Bible to that effect, but that's the first one that comes to mind.

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10/6/2006, 5:37 am Link to this post PM Lesigner Girl Read Blog
 
praying4patience Profile
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I can't reason,
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Registered: 03-2006
Posts: 113
Karma: -5 (+1/-6)
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Re: the Science and Bible thread


lesigner girl,
i went through all of 1 Timothy at biblegateway.com using the KJV version and i couldn't find a single verse or passage that said anything to that affect. I doublechecked. Maybe you have a quote you could post that we could take a look at?
i didn't want to end up with 2 seperate posts and start hogging the whole board so i'm gonna include 2 replies with 1 post:



Are you sure of that? The New Testament, perhaps, and parts of the Old that relate to the prophesies that Jesus would be born, but that leaves substantial parts that are not about Jesus.

we could go through some individual parts but that would take some time and a lot more posts than i plan to take up here.There are other ppl. So let's sum it up this way:
Scripture is about this;Revelation,Covenant,Salvation and Truth.
Jesus is Revelation,Covenant,Salvation and Truth.

 

Can you please give me your opinion on why God stopped speaking directly to humankind after the Old Testatment was written but before the beginning of the ministry of The Christ?

He did?

Why is there a need for intercession between God and humankind?

I'm not sure what you mean here? I don't get the question anotherwords.
Maybe you could be a little more specific? I'm holding the lost sign.
thanks!
GB~
p4p

Last revised by praying4patience, 10/6/2006, 9:05 am


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10/6/2006, 8:55 am Link to this post PM praying4patience Read Blog
 


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