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Morwen Oronor Profile
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Atheists: No God, just whining


blah blah blah!


Atheists: No God, just whining

Atheists are a tiresome, self-pitying bunch whose primary motivation isn't rationalism but anger
I can't stand atheists – but it's not because they don't believe in God. It's because they're crashing bores.

Other people, most recently the British cultural critic Terry Eagleton in his new book, Faith, Reason and Revolution, take to task such superstar nonbelievers as Oxford biologist Richard Dawkins (The God Delusion) and political journalist Christopher Hitchens (God Is Not Great) for indulging in a philosophically primitive opposition of faith and reason that assumes that if science can't prove something, it doesn't exist.

My problem with atheists is their tiresome – and way old – insistence that they are being oppressed and their fixation with the fine points of Christianity. What – did their Sunday school teachers flog their behinds with a Bible when they were kids?

Read Dawkins, or Hitchens, or the works of fellow atheists Sam Harris (The End of Faith) and Daniel Dennett (Breaking the Spell), or visit an atheist website or blog (there are zillions of them, bearing such titles as God Is for Suckers, God Is Imaginary and God Is Pretend), and your eyes will glaze over as you peruse – again and again – the obsessively tiny range of topics around which atheists circle like water in a drain.

First off, there's atheist victimology: Boohoo, everybody hates us 'cuz we don't believe in God. Although a recent Pew Forum survey on religion found that 16% of Americans describe themselves as religiously unaffiliated, only 1.6% call themselves atheists, with another 2.4% weighing in as agnostics (a group despised as wishy-washy by atheists). You or I might attribute the low numbers to atheists' failure to win converts to their unbelief, but atheists say the problem is persecution so relentless that it drives tens of millions of God-deniers into a closet of feigned faith, like gays before Stonewall.

In his online Atheist Manifesto, Harris writes that "no person, whatever his or her qualifications, can seek public office in the United States without pretending to be certain that ... God exists." The evidence? Antique clauses in the constitutions of six – count 'em – states barring atheists from office.

The US supreme court ruled such provisions unenforceable nearly 50 years ago, but that doesn't stop atheists from bewailing that they have to hide their Godlessness from friends, relatives, employers and potential dates. One representative of the pity-poor-me school of atheism, Kathleen Goodman, writing in January for the Chronicle of Higher Education, went so far as to promote affirmative action for atheists on college campuses: specially designated, college-subsidised "safe spaces" for them to express their views.

Maybe atheists wouldn't be so unpopular if they stopped beating the drum until the hide splits on their second-favourite topic: How stupid people are who believe in God. This is a favourite Dawkins theme. In a recent interview with Trina Hoaks, the atheist blogger for the Examiner.com website, Dawkins described religious believers as follows: "They feel uneducated, which they are; often rather stupid, which they are; inferior, which they are; and paranoid about pointy-headed intellectuals from the East Coast looking down on them, which, with some justification, they do." Thanks, Richard!

Dennett likes to call atheists "the brights", in contrast to everybody else, who obviously aren't so bright. In a 2006 essay describing his brush with death after a heart operation, Dennett wrote these thoughts about his religious friends who told him they were praying for his recovery: "Thanks, I appreciate it, but did you also sacrifice a goat?" With friends like Daniel Dennett, you don't need enemies.

Then there's PZ Myers, biology professor at the University of Minnesota's Morris campus, whose blog, Pharyngula, is supposedly about Myers's field, evolutionary biology, but is actually about his fanatical propensity to label religious believers as "idiots", "morons", "loony" or "imbecilic" in nearly every post. The university deactivated its link to Myers' blog in July after he posted a photo of a consecrated host from a Mass that he had pierced with a rusty nail and thrown into the garbage ("I hope Jesus's tetanus shots are up to date") in an effort to prove that Catholicism is bunk – or something.

Myers's blog exemplifies atheists' frenzied fascination with Christianity and the Bible. Atheist website after atheist website insists that Jesus either didn't exist or "was a jerk" (in the words of one blogger) because he didn't eliminate smallpox or world poverty. At the American Atheists website, a writer complains that God "set up" Adam and Eve, knowing in advance that they would eat the forbidden fruit. A blogger on A Is for Atheist has been going through the Bible chapter by chapter and verse by verse in order to prove its "insanity" (he or she had gotten up to the Book of Joshua when I last looked).

Another topic that atheists beat like the hammer on the anvil in the old Anacin commercials is Darwinism versus creationism. Maybe Darwin-o-mania stems from the fact that this year marks the bicentennial of Charles Darwin's birth in 1809, but haven't atheists heard that many religious people (including the late Pope John Paul II) don't have a problem with evolution but, rather, regard it as God's way of letting his living creation unfold? Furthermore, even if human nature as we know it is a matter of lucky adaptations, how exactly does that disprove the existence of God?

And then there's the question of why atheists are so intent on trying to prove that God not only doesn't exist but is evil to boot. Dawkins, writing in The God Delusion, accuses the deity of being a "petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak" as well as a "misogynistic, homophobic, racist ... bully." If there is no God – and you'd be way beyond stupid to think differently – why does it matter whether he's good or evil?

The problem with atheists – and what makes them such excruciating snoozes – is that few of them are interested in making serious metaphysical or epistemological arguments against God's existence, or in taking on the serious arguments that theologians have made attempting to reconcile, say, God's omniscience with free will or God's goodness with human suffering. Atheists seem to assume that the whole idea of God is a ridiculous absurdity, the "flying spaghetti monster" of atheists' typically lame jokes. They think that lobbing a few Gaza-style rockets accusing God of failing to create a world more to their liking ("If there's a God, why aren't I rich?" "If there's a God, why didn't he give me two heads so I could sleep with one head while I get some work done with the other?") will suffice to knock down the entire edifice of belief.

What primarily seems to motivate atheists isn't rationalism but anger – anger that the world isn't perfect, that someone forced them to go to church as children, that the Bible contains apparent contradictions, that human beings can be hypocrites and commit crimes in the name of faith. The vitriol is extraordinary. Hitchens thinks that "religion spoils everything". Dawkins contends that raising one's offspring in one's religion constitutes child abuse. Harris argues that it "may be ethical to kill people" on the basis of their beliefs. The perennial atheist litigant Michael Newdow sued (unsuccessfully) to bar President Obama from uttering the words "so help me God" when he took his oath of office.

What atheists don't seem to realise is that even for believers, faith is never easy in this world of injustice, pain and delusion. Even for believers, God exists just beyond the scrim of the senses. So, atheists, how about losing the tired sarcasm and boring self-pity and engaging believers seriously?

This article originally appeared in the Los Angeles Times.



Maybe atheists wouldn't be so boring if believers weren't so idiotic.
How many times to we have to shut up the idiots that make comments every time we bring up any subject that they think god has control over in any discussion? It's not atheists that drag god into the discussions, it's the believers that do it then we we disprove their stupidity, they say we're 'whining'.
6/1/2009, 2:05 pm Link to this post PM Morwen Oronor Read Blog
 
Morwen Oronor Profile
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Re: Atheists: No God, just whining


Sorry guys I can't resist this one.
Lesa, you can moderate this if it's offensive.

If the worst thing you're doing as a non-believer is to whine, it's not anything as bad as constantly worrying about the being in the sky watching you no matter what you're doing.

Last revised by Morwen Oronor, 6/1/2009, 3:43 pm
6/1/2009, 2:14 pm Link to this post PM Morwen Oronor Read Blog
 
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Re: Atheists: No God, just whining


   I'm not offended, but there's a good point there. Just like we don't want the religious folks trying to convert us, we shouldn't be trying to convert them into not believing in a spirit world either. We have to face it that there are more of them than us and it stands to reason that more children than not will welcome this explanation of life.
   I really do think there's something biological about this and there's no way to change anyone’s mind on it. Our major roll should be to make sure that when a child is born like us, he or she is not persecuted for their non-belief and to make it known that it is OK not to believe.
   I think that some of those guys claiming that being brought up in a religious family is child abuse goes a bit too far. There are some parents that do take religion to an extreme and that has to be kept in check. I think us non-believers are a clever lot and smart enough to just play along until one day when we are an adult, we can just throw all that crap away and get on with our lives. Kids don't believe in Santa Clause their whole life and I don't think there's been any permanent damage done by that hoax.
   As long as there are equal rights, equal opportunity, and freedom to believe what you want to believe, this can be a decent world to live in, but when you’re a kid, life isn’t always fair. You have to play by the rules in your parent’s house. I did it for 18 years and I turned out OK.
6/1/2009, 3:56 pm Link to this post PM SKOKEY
 
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Re: Atheists: No God, just whining


I agree from a kid's point of view, god and heaven can be up there with santa claus.
It's a lot easier to get a child to accept death if you tell them that 'grandpa's gone to heaven' rather than say, 'well, that's that, he's gone now.'
In the same way you get them to let you pull out a loose tooth with promises of a tooth fairy bringing money for the tooth, you get them to let grandpa go by letting them believe they can send him to 'god'. But it has to reach a point where they realise that god is the same as santa claus and the tooth fairy, just another childhood fantasy.
And no, I'm not whining.
6/1/2009, 4:32 pm Link to this post PM Morwen Oronor Read Blog
 
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Re: Atheists: No God, just whining


   You can't assume that a kid will grow out of the god delusion, because obviously, most don't. If it is biological like I think it is, they have to believe in a spirit world of some kind. You might get them to change religions or to forget about the tooth fairy, but something will fill the void.
   My Uncle Moe once said, "Everyone has to believe in something" and from his point of view, it was absolutely true. I didn’t have the heart to tell him that it was not true for me and when he died, I was like – That’s that. That doesn’t mean I didn’t care, just that I understand that life isn’t for ever. It really freaked me out when his sister said, “How could he do this to me?” Seems kind of selfish but I know she really didn’t mean it that way. She’s not a selfish person by any means, just very sad at that moment.
6/1/2009, 5:15 pm Link to this post PM SKOKEY
 
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Re: Atheists: No God, just whining


It would be interesting to see a correlation between religious belief and attitudes towards death. Some people I know go to church but they don't believe in heaven.
6/1/2009, 5:25 pm Link to this post PM Morwen Oronor Read Blog
 
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Re: Atheists: No God, just whining


I respect your right to believe as you choose, I will not impose my ways on you and expect the same from you.

Believers whine too! emoticon

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6/1/2009, 6:01 pm Link to this post PM Onyx2201
 
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Re: Atheists: No God, just whining



Morwen Oronor said:Some people I know go to church but they don't believe in heaven.



If there's no heaven for them, then where in the hell does their god live? emoticon

Who are they trying to impress by going to church?
6/1/2009, 11:13 pm Link to this post PM SKOKEY
 
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Re: Atheists: No God, just whining


I only read a fraction of the article, because the writer is obviously a dishonest twit who doesn't even try to get it right.


In a recent interview with Trina Hoaks, the atheist blogger for the Examiner.com website, Dawkins described religious believers as follows: "They feel uneducated, which they are; often rather stupid, which they are; inferior, which they are; and paranoid about pointy-headed intellectuals from the East Coast looking down on them, which, with some justification, they do." Thanks, Richard!


She makes it sound like he said that about all religious believers, when the question he was answering was about "certain religious people who tend to focus more on evolution" than any of the other sciences that all disprove a literal interpretation of the bible.

And he was right. Anyone who claims evolution is false because it disagrees with their holy book but doesn't have a problem with archaology, paleontology, cosmology, or any other science, not to mention how quickly some of them will get flu shots every damned year, is completely ignorant of the matter and just blindly listens to anyone who can reinforce their religious belief, rather than getting off their lazy arses and learning the most basic aspects of this stuff for themselves. These "certain" people are the ones who stick their fingers in their ears and sing, "La la la, I can't hear you," because they don't want to hear what's been proven, because what's been proven will only topple their faith.

Not all religious people, mind you. Just those "certain" people, and that is all that Richard was saying, so the dishonest twit who wrote that LA Times article can just kiss my lily white arse.

Here's the article where he said that.

And here is the quote in context:


Trina: There is so much controversy about evolution, as I am sure you are well aware. What are your thoughts on why certain religious people tend to focus more on evolution than, say, paleontology or archeology, which can certainly be just as damaging to their religious texts as is the theory of evolution?

Richard: Well, paleontology, of course, is one of the main evidences for evolution, so that goes there. I suppose it’s become a kind of red-rag issue. It’s become like their piece of tokenism in a way. They feel uneducated, which they are, often rather stupid, which they are, inferior, which they are, and paranoid about pointy headed intellectuals from the east coast looking down on them, which, with some justification, they do. They tend to be the sort of people who vote for Sara Palin instead of voting for someone who’s qualified to lead the country. They think “I’d rather vote for someone who’s just like me” under this weird idea that they want to be governed by people who are just like them. Similarly, I think there is a sort of inferiority complex and that could be part of it. I suppose it’s also true that much of science doesn’t directly contradict what’s in the Bible whereas evolution does. But mainly, it’s become a sort of red-rag issue by historical tradition.


It seems like every time I see someone bitching about atheists, it's always accompanied by lies. Don't these people have anything real to !@#$ about, or can they honestly not find anything wrong with us and feel the need to make !@#$ up just so they'll have something to !@#$ about?

Oh wait... Was I supposed to moderate this thread? emoticon

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6/2/2009, 1:17 am Link to this post PM Lesigner Girl Read Blog
 
Morwen Oronor Profile
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Re: Atheists: No God, just whining



SKOKEY said:


Morwen Oronor said:Some people I know go to church but they don't believe in heaven.



If there's no heaven for them, then where in the hell does their god live? emoticon

Who are they trying to impress by going to church?



The other people at church?
They usually say "I don't really believe in heaven, but I do believe in a 'higher power'". To me just hedging your bets, you don't believe in it but just in case, you're buying your way in anyway.
What most people don't get about religion is that even though there is a lot of money raised by religion that goes to charities, the charities are usually those that agree with their particular philosophy but most of the money goes into making the people who run the religion rich.
I have a lot of respect for people who work at proper jobs and who also spend their free time giving pep talks to the people who will listen to them.
I have absolutely no respect for people who live in palaces, run around in silk outfits, don't actually do any real work, and then imagine that they are the arbiter of what is right or wrong and what is and isn't true.
I don't think I hate people who are religious or the idea of people believing in mythology, if it makes them feel good about themselves. I don't care whether anyone does or doesn't. What I do care about is:
1. that they don't try to sell it to me.
2. that they don't damage children while they're doing it.
3. that they don't steal money from people who are barely getting by by making them feel that they're obliged to pay over 10% of their income.
4. that they don't deny their own children the opportunity to make up their own minds about things.
5. that they don't cause genocide or mass murder because of their beliefs.
Maybe there are a few others but those are my main concerns. If your religion doesn't do any of these things, then I'll usually leave you alone.
6/2/2009, 3:31 am Link to this post PM Morwen Oronor Read Blog
 


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