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Minerva
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Registered: 11-2005
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Where do we draw the line on religious rights?


US 'prayer cure' couple lose appeal over child's death
3 July 2013


The couple identify themselves as Pentecostal Christians and believe visiting a doctor is akin to worshipping an idol, the Supreme Court opinion said.

The family first began to pray after Kara became very tired and pale, and her legs turned blue.

They continued to do so as their daughter's conditioned worsened, disregarding suggestions from Leilani Neumann's mother to bring Kara to a doctor.

Leilani Neumann rejected a suggestion that she give Kara a dehydration supplement, saying such a treatment would be taking away the glory from God.

Kara slipped into a coma and died.

Emergency room officials testified the girl's condition was easily treatable and her chances of survival had been high "well into the day of her death".


She had undiagnosed diabetes, which was easily treatable, and could have lived to a ripe old age if they had sought medical treatment for her.


The couple were convicted in separate trials in 2009 and sentenced to six months in prison.


Six months in prison, for watching their 11-year-old child get sick, slip into a coma, and die. Six months.


Dale Neumann testified during his trial that he never thought his daughter's illness would prove fatal.

He said he believed that even if she did die, Jesus would resurrect her, much like the biblical story of Lazarus.


Hey, don't forget the daughter of Jairus (Mark 5:41-42). I probably know their bible better than they do, and I don't see any biblical basis for such a nonsensical belief. Oh, so your faith can move mountains, right? Ask and ye shall receive? Then why aren't there any post-crucifixion stories of Jesus raising other people from the dead? Besides, of course, the big zombie-fest that supposedly occurred at the moment of his alleged death. What makes them believe that their child will be the one child who gets raised from the dead nearly 2000 years after the alleged death of their supposed savior?

If you want to be an idiot and deny medical treatment for yourself when you're ill, that's your right, but people should not be allowed to endanger their children like this! I understand and support the freedom of religion, but I don't support forcing one's religion on others, especially when the consequences can be so detrimental to someone's health and well-being, and even kill in cases like this.

I leave you with this one last bit from the article:

In Pennsylvania, a couple has been charged with the death of their infant son from pneumonia after they refused medical care and relied only on prayer.

They were already serving 10 years of probation for the death of their two-year-old son in 2009.



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7/22/2013, 1:47 am Link to this post PM Lesigner Girl Read Blog
 
SKOKEY Profile
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Citizen

Registered: 12-2005
Province: Bennington, NH
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Re:


Is six months a typical child abuse sentence? Wouldn't remaining children be removed from the parents in a child abuse case?

Anyway, prayer in lieu of medical attention for a child should be treated as child abuse and in the case of death, negligent homicide.

I have no problem with the parents getting sick and praying themselves to death, but the line is drawn at their children.
7/22/2013, 9:44 am Link to this post PM SKOKEY
 
Lesigner Girl Profile
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Minerva
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Re: Where do we draw the line on religious rights?


I don't think six months is long enough, and I do think their other three children should be placed in better homes if they're minors.


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;


Obviously, we have to put limits on that second half, and we do.

We don't allow human sacrifice, or the stoning of people for daring to work on some designated day of rest, because it will impose on someone else's rights. We don't allow slavery anymore, despite the Bible condoning this, because it would impose on someone else's rights. We don't allow people to force their daughter to marry someone she doesn't want to, because that would infringe on her rights.

We are allowed to throw a punch in the air, but not at someone's face. We are allowed to drive 70mph on the freeway, but not through a subdivision where there's a high likelihood of hitting someone. We are allowed to sunbathe by a pool, sipping iced tea and ignoring the noise around us, but if that noise is your child drowning, it is your obligation to get your ass out of that beach chair and pull that child out of the water.

Would these same parents have let their child drown if she had fallen into a pool and couldn't swim? If she had stepped on a piece of glass and was bleeding profusely, would they not have at least cleaned and bandaged the wound, or would they have just let her bleed while they prayed for the wound to heal? If she had broken her leg, they probably would have just left her in bed and prayed until she could walk again, even if her leg was severely bowed as a result of not having it set and braced properly.

I was trying to find the maximum sentence for 2nd degree reckless homicide, which is what they were sentenced for, but came across this in a csmonitor article:


In their appeal, the parents argued that their homicide convictions violated their right to receive clear and fair notice that their use on prayer for healing would subject them to prosecution for homicide. The court rejected that argument as well.


So you're saying you would have gotten your daughter medical treatment to keep yourself out of jail, but not to save your daughter's life? Monster.

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7/22/2013, 7:32 pm Link to this post PM Lesigner Girl Read Blog
 
Queenyforever Profile
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Ignore me.

Registered: 01-2007
Province: Just north of the clouds...
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Re: Where do we draw the line on religious rights?


Unfortunately for that child, people actually DO believe in God that strongly. emoticon

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7/23/2013, 5:49 pm Link to this post PM Queenyforever Read Blog
 
Lesigner Girl Profile
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Minerva
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Registered: 11-2005
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Re: Where do we draw the line on religious rights?


Someone needs to tell those people that God only helps those who help themselves. Of course, I don't believe there's a god helping anyone, but at least that kind of belief might prompt them to take some actual action while they're praying.

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7/23/2013, 6:10 pm Link to this post PM Lesigner Girl Read Blog
 
Queenyforever Profile
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Ignore me.

Registered: 01-2007
Province: Just north of the clouds...
Posts: 1467
Karma: 48 (+48/-0)
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Re: Where do we draw the line on religious rights?


No argument from me on that one... emoticon

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7/24/2013, 5:00 pm Link to this post PM Queenyforever Read Blog
 


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